More of a muddle than a match Holley and Watkins wedding snaps


A ‘new’ Welsh second cousin getting in touch through this website was a welcome prompt to go back to the pile of photos scanned during last year’s visit to Knighton and cousin Islwyn {1}. Some have got directly attached to individuals on the family tree on Ancestry, via Family Tree Maker. Others continue to need cracking of puzzles such as the date of the picture and the people featured. This piece is a start on a puzzle or two.

The article ‘Wedding fashions through family photos‘ was published here over 2 years ago, showing the happy occasion from 1905 to 1940. So finding an opportunity to add to that collection is also overdue. This time we go backwards, from 1964 to the ’30s.

Ivor Holley Ann Monks Wedding 1964
Wedding of (Ivor) Dennis Holley and Ann Monks, 5 Sept 1964, Bridgend district.

No doubt about who are the centre of attention there, but it is going to take a while to be sure of more than a few of the other faces. Ivor’s brother Willie John rear left. Three more possibles from the next photo. And who else? (Ivor is probably more commonly known by his middle name of Dennis, or Den.)

Attempt at names, March/Sept 2015:

Children at front: see Paul’s comment (4) below.

Middle/front row, from left: Gwyneth Watkins nee Hickman, Dwynwen Watkins, #4 on Watkins women photo below?, a Holley, Sal (Louisa’s sister), Louisa Holley nee Cox, Ivor Dennis Holley, Ann Monks, Eurfron Watkins, wife of Willie John Holley (Ann White?), Ceinwen Rees nee Watkins, #2 on Watkins women photo below, ?, bridesmaid Beverley (?) Thomas – see comment 4, ?.

Back row, from left: Willie John Holley, Royston (?) Thomas – see comment 4, ?, Trevelyan and Iris Thomas – see comment 8, (gap), tall young man, woman with wide brim hat, short older man!

Lewis Street could be in Pontyclun (covered by Bridgend registration district up to 1970).

While three of the women in the next photo are also in the one above, wearing the same dresses, one or two of their hats differ so its seems a stretch for it to be the same occasion. But surely around the same time. Islwyn identified some of this crew (from left) as 1. Gwyneth Watkins nee Hickman, 3. Brenda Watkins (nee Lloyd)? 5. Eurfron Holley nee Watkins, 6. Ceinwen Rees nee Watkins, 7. Dwynwen Watkins. Could number 4 be Arwyn?

Watkins women at a 60s wedding.
Watkins women at a 60s wedding.

Now four definite names matched to faces for what must be an early fifties wedding group, from left: Morwenna (Wenna) Webb, ??, possibly Margaret Webb (nee Parry), Kay Webb, Mary Hannah Parry (nee Watkins), Bill Parry.

Clearly a wedding group, but whose?
Clearly a wedding group, but whose?

Kay and Wenna are Margaret’s children, and their likely age makes this 1951 at the earliest. So not Margaret’s marriage to Joseph Webb, although he could be the mystery man (no other snaps of him found so far). Whose great day, then?

Update, June 2016: see the second half of ‘Pitching for a job‘ for the answer.

And dating from fashions, a studio photo from perhaps the early ’30s:

Possibly Holley family
Possibly Holley family

Islwyn suggests that this could be the Holley family, but would it be as late as 1936, when Eurfron married Willie Ashford? See first comment below (also comments 5 to 9).

Even more questions and fewer answers than usual for Cutlock and Co. Your suggestions most welcome.

Notes

1. Earlier article on Cutlock and Co with photo from the same scanning batch: The electrical connection.

17 thoughts on “More of a muddle than a match Holley and Watkins wedding snaps

  1. hi its tony holley islwyn is rite in thinking it is my grandparents eurfron and willie asfords wedding day

  2. Wooooo – who is Willie Ashford? My aunt has her gt nan Mary Janes Ashford dairy that notes every week 2/6d to Willie ( her son) must do some more searching!!!

  3. Hi Sue. The full name for ‘Willie Ashford’ mentioned above is Willie Ashford Holley, son of James Courtenay Holley (aka Courtney Willie Holley) and Elizabeth Louisa Cox. So unlikely to be the Willie mentioned in the diary – or is he? The Ashford middle name could easily indicate an ancestor of that surname.

  4. The three children are, my older sister Meryl cousin Leslie (Dens brother) and my younger sister Shan,my oldest sister is 2nd from right (bridesmaid) my oldest brother is 2nd left back row, myself and two younger brothers weren’t there.

  5. Thanks Paul. After seeing your photos etc on Facebook I did wonder whether that young woman might be your mother. Glad to have it confirmed.

  6. Re “possible Holley family” photo, the woman on the right of the photo is that Louisa Holley – Iris Holley’s mother?

    1. Hi Helen, the answer to your question is no sorry,not sure who that is can only assume its one of Beryls sisters as they look very similar. If you look at the wedding picture Louisa Holley is next to Den (groom) at the front with her sister Sal next to her and my mother Iris Thomas (nee Holley) is behind both of them with the white hat and my dad is next to her.

      1. I’ve updated the notes to the large wedding photo, Paul, as you’ve given me a few more clues! Still not sure on your older siblings’ names though. But did you mean ‘Eurfron’s sisters’, not Beryl – Beryl Watkins married Idris 1945, and as far as I know isn’t connected to my wider Watkins clan. There’s a photo of Eurfron and siblings at a later age on the Watkins and Griffiths page – perhaps it could be Ceinwen in 1936 photo above? But I have my doubts, as Islwyn would have recognised her.

      2. Hi Paul, thanks for your answer – Louisa Holley and her sister Sarah Westcott ( Sal) are sisters to my great grandfather.

        Would it be possible for you email a photo of Louisa or do you have a family tree that I could look at.

        Thank you.

        1. Hi Helen, sorry to have taken so long to reply, most of my pictures are kept on my desktop so will have a look as soon as I can ( don’t be afraid to remind me ) and forward it/them to you.
          Paul
          ps my siblings are
          Roy, Beverley, Meryl, myself, Shan, Geoffrey and Stephen.

          1. Hi Paul, Thank you for getting back to me. If you don’t mind would you mind contacting me via email and I have some questions to ask you regarding your family.

            Thank you.
            Regards
            Helen

  7. Hi Paul, I have received your email address and have sent you a reply back with a copy to my other email address.

    I look forward to hearing from you.

    Helen

  8. Looking at the wedding of dennis holley and ann monks me and mam have picked out my late grandmother miriam walters nee watkins.

    1. Thanks for the comment, Phillip. Is Miriam the 5th person from the right in that photo, then? Who matches 2nd from left in the Watkins women photo lower down?

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